tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post2630528432875969424..comments2024-03-28T01:58:21.637-04:00Comments on Screw You Guys, I'm Going Home: What You Don't Know About the Minimum Wage Will Hurt AmericaUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-77253127305430903532012-08-05T21:43:59.629-04:002012-08-05T21:43:59.629-04:00he smiles. the average person doesn't get paid...he smiles. the average person doesn't get paid the minimum wage. and i wouldn't construct a budget for the average person because the situation is unique for each individual just as Donna will tell you that each of her cases are unique thus dealt with on an individual basis.<br /><br />and i'll overlook the ad hominem accusation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-90757791846373548142012-08-05T16:54:33.785-04:002012-08-05T16:54:33.785-04:00By all means, please share. And explain as well ho...By all means, please share. And explain as well how you plan to account for unexpected expenses and health care. <br /><br />Unless you can put together a budget for the AVERAGE person on minimum wage (ie: not a single person with no children and no debt), this is really just borderline trolling.Cube Ninjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02135452729196039328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-26415212059211375632012-08-05T16:52:54.747-04:002012-08-05T16:52:54.747-04:00Donna - my entire deal there was in response to Gr...Donna - my entire deal there was in response to Griper's comment that a person can "live quite well" on minimum wage. I was attempting to point out the logical fallacy of that statement by putting together a real-world type example of how it's a pretty tough go even as a single person with no kids or debt. :)Cube Ninjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02135452729196039328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-82356642031963229992012-08-05T12:22:41.357-04:002012-08-05T12:22:41.357-04:00and one more thing after rereadig the comments. i ...and one more thing after rereadig the comments. i can see at least $100 that can probably be trimmed from that budget stated in one of the comments and that is only from reading it not experiencing it. so i have no doubt in my argument now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-33976285577105733042012-08-05T10:38:36.529-04:002012-08-05T10:38:36.529-04:00Hi Cube. Yes, a single person can possibly live on...Hi Cube. Yes, a single person can possibly live on minimum wage. The working parent cannot. The calculations in the article were based on a 2 bedroom apartment. In Minnesota, a minimum wage worker with a family requiring a two bedroom apartment would have to work 84 hours a week to survive. Or maybe they should follow Newt's advice and put the 10-year-old to work as a janitor.Donna Ballmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603733714342746822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-64908771422333136592012-08-05T02:50:58.198-04:002012-08-05T02:50:58.198-04:00Using ADP's payroll calculator, I plugged in t...Using ADP's payroll calculator, I plugged in the $15,000 figure, assuming no other deductions beyond those mandated by the federal government (ie: no state income tax). This results in a net amount of $243 based on a weekly pay schedule or roughly $1025 on a monthly basis.<br /><br />Now, let's start with the basics. I'll use Minneapolis as my example, given that's where I'm at. <br /><br />I was able to find a 525 sq. ft. apartment for $550/month, which is a smaller, but reasonable amount of space for one person to live comfortably. This studio apartment also includes heat, water and trash. So that's living space taken care of. <br /><br />Running total: $550.00/month<br /><br />Now to food. The USDA's official food plan for a female aged 19-50 is $161/month for the "thrifty" option. Males in the same age group are $181/month.<br /><br />Running total: $731.00/month<br /><br />Oops, we forgot to pay utilities. Let's be a little conservative and say that electric runs $40/month, accounting for AC in the summer months. Cable TV probably isn't too likely, and DSL internet can be had for $30/month. Oh, we need a phone too. Off-contract, call it $50 for a cell phone as our example person's only telephone. That brings the total for utilities to $120.<br /><br />Running Total: $850.00/month<br /><br />In a wide open city like Minneapolis/St. Paul, our example would really have trouble getting anywhere in a reasonable amount of time without a car, which means insurance. Now, our minimum wage earner is very possibly in the approximately 50% of those under the age of 25 and therefore won't have any particular discounts. <br /><br />Just for fun, though, let's lowball this and say that it's going to cost $420 every 6 months for insurance so we have easy math. That's $70/month for car insurance, probably with state minimums.<br /><br />Running Total: $920.00/month<br /><br />Given that we're being pretty frugal here, a budget of $50/month for clothing seems reasonable. That roughly equates to 2-3 t-shirts and a pack of underwear, in case anyone was wondering. Or one pair of jeans at Old Navy with enough money left to grab lunch at McDonald's. Go ahead, super size me. <br /><br />Running Total: $970.00/month<br /><br />Gee whiz, I forgot gas money. That's another $50/month<br /><br />Which should leave that person still needing renter's and health insurance. Given that they're being paid minimum wage, it's statistically unlikely that their employer is footing the bill for even the most basic preventative care package. <br /><br />The $5 left over each month isn't enough to pay for Netflix streaming, so unfortunately, there's no entertainment budget to speak of. <br /><br />This example also assumes that the person has no children and no debt at all. And no clean clothes, since there wasn't money left in the budget for that either.<br /><br />A really excellent thing to take a look at is: http://playspent.org/ - while not amazingly scientific (just like what I've written above), it offers a great deal of insight into the decisions that minimum wage workers have to make every day.Cube Ninjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02135452729196039328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-81457177771878033192012-08-04T21:24:00.123-04:002012-08-04T21:24:00.123-04:00i stand by my statement and that economically depr...i stand by my statement and that economically depressed nation is the good ol' USA. <br /><br />and Donna, that higher cost of goods that you are willing to pay is also the amount paid by that minumum wage earner thus offsetting any raise he got along with the higher taxes he would end up paying too not only on the federal level but also on the State and local level. so, he ends up with less than when he started and he would still be on welfare if he was already on it.<br />and remember, they cannot write those added expenses off like you can<br />as i said you are not looking at the whole effect, only the partial effect as you see the employee getting up front.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-47711986000197471282012-08-04T07:59:41.147-04:002012-08-04T07:59:41.147-04:00Hi CLH. I agree with you 100%. We pay more, as tax...Hi CLH. I agree with you 100%. We pay more, as taxpayers, in the form of aid for housing and food, healthcare, and other expenses for minimum wage workers than we would pay in the higher cost of goods if we mandate a living wage. Raising the minimum wage three times in 30 years is appalling and irresponsible. It should be tied to cost of living and automatically raise every year.Donna Ballmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603733714342746822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-57967891445660268522012-08-04T07:53:49.533-04:002012-08-04T07:53:49.533-04:00Hi Cube. I hope you are prophetic. We've let c...Hi Cube. I hope you are prophetic. We've let companies get away with runaway profits on the backs of underpaid workers too long.Donna Ballmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603733714342746822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-89304929649171662842012-08-04T07:52:32.715-04:002012-08-04T07:52:32.715-04:00Hi Kimberlee. Great quote! Thanks for sharing it.Hi Kimberlee. Great quote! Thanks for sharing it.Donna Ballmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603733714342746822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-26365840630696143622012-08-04T07:51:53.263-04:002012-08-04T07:51:53.263-04:00Hi Susan. I couldn't agree more! A CEO who has...Hi Susan. I couldn't agree more! A CEO who has three mansions on the backs of workers is not anything but a robber baron.Donna Ballmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603733714342746822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-19539403448192153012012-08-04T07:50:25.582-04:002012-08-04T07:50:25.582-04:00Hi griper. Of course I want government to regulate...Hi griper. Of course I want government to regulate corporations. If they didn't, we'd still have sweat shops and exploding Pintos. Yes, I want government to force the private sector to pay employees a living wage. I think it's a reasonable imposition.Donna Ballmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603733714342746822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-53705274411400356802012-08-04T00:19:08.025-04:002012-08-04T00:19:08.025-04:00griper- "and an individual earning minimum wa...griper- "and an individual earning minimum wage can live quite well too. i know that as a fact. one reason is that in a lot of places that start you out at minimum wage will result in an increase of pay after the trial period of employment."<br /><br />Griper- One must have lived in some very, very economically depressed countries to think of minimum wage in the US as "living well". Using the "basket of goods" model of poverty, social adjustments are made by region in order to define what poverty is. In the US, the minium goods required for basic survival are: Food, clothing, shelter (with appropriate environmental controls, such as AC in Arizona, and heat in Maine), transportation to and from a place of employment, and health care. If you think that a minimum wage job, even working two of those at full time, can provide the above without government assistance, I would love to see how. An excellent guide would be the budget/deductibles the IRS allows for bankruptcy proceedings when computing whether or not to collect past due taxes. (You'll have to dig for the link, I can't find it ATM, sorry!). That's the best estimate of the true cost of living in the US, and that excludes all form of entertainment and cell phone access (which is required to be able to work in the majority of jobs anymore).<br /><br />Fantasy land, thy denizens name be griper.CLHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06723077623918449398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-87073618709817799912012-08-03T21:30:02.713-04:002012-08-03T21:30:02.713-04:00that's a lawyer for you, ignore the argument p...that's a lawyer for you, ignore the argument put forth and present a misleading concept of that argument by only addressing a part of it. :)<br /><br />the gist of my argument was that government is forcing itself to do what it will not do voluntarily, raise wages for those who draw a minimum wage from the government.<br />and moreover, all it does is add to the deficit spending of government as if it isn't high enough already. of course part of this will be made up by the additional taxes that the poor will be paying because they got a raise in pay.<br /><br />and whether you admit or not, the private business will not absorb that added expense as government must. they will pass it along to the consumer in the form of higher prices for their product or service. and guess who that effects the most?<br /><br />as for the economy a raise in the minimum wage will have very little effect on it because the net amount to spend will not be that much.<br /><br />and an individual earning minimum wage can live quite well too. i know that as a fact. one reason is that in a lot of places that start you out at minimum wage will result in an increase of pay after the trial period of employment.<br /><br />i understand that as a lawyer you are an advocate of the employee but you are not looking at the whole effect of such a law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-61275600631733957762012-08-03T20:34:51.659-04:002012-08-03T20:34:51.659-04:00The business that disregards its employees in favo...The business that disregards its employees in favor of profits will quickly find itself without either one.Cube Ninjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02135452729196039328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-33448578627303045272012-08-03T19:46:20.334-04:002012-08-03T19:46:20.334-04:00Susan: I agree completely! I think that modern ame...Susan: I agree completely! I think that modern american capitalists have forgotten an essential part of capitalist theory, espoused here by Henry Ford: "Make the best quality of goods possible, at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." The third part businesses ignore consistently, and to their detriment.Kimberlee Stienshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16894679824873709457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-11910189520051427162012-08-03T18:35:12.993-04:002012-08-03T18:35:12.993-04:00Dear griper,
Why not force the private sector to ...Dear griper, <br />Why not force the private sector to do something it doesn't want to do? Capitalism requires regulation --unless you're pining for the Dickensonian (or maybe Lochner?) era. <br /><br />I think minimum wage should be raised to $10.50/hr and tied to the consumer price index (which should be calculated the way it was in the 1970s, not using the faux CPI of today) and adjusted annually for inflation. It should also be calulated regionally, just like Service Contract Act wages. <br /><br />Business owners all seem to think they're entitled to a huge profit. The way I see it, if your business model depends on paying workers less than a living wage, it's either a defective business model or you're lousy at running a business.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15032178579433686850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1685903630161577363.post-64082991201397615752012-08-03T13:36:43.224-04:002012-08-03T13:36:43.224-04:00he has to really grin at this post. he can't t...he has to really grin at this post. he can't think of a more self-contradictory idea than the minimum wage law. she wants the government to force the private sector to do something which it won't do itself voluntarily.<br /><br />in other words she wants the government to force itself to give raises to those who are being paid minimum wage now. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com